The changes are nice but they're completely lacking compared to other class reworks.

- Split Dusk and the immediate cc on Nocturne are huge improvements, although the new Nocturne/Repeated Annihilation move does not work when used from awakening, the same with no collision on Smokey Haze doesn't work while in Awakening.

- Awakening barely got improvements itself.

- Succ AoE improvements and improved flows are nice which should make Succ competitive.

- No self-buffs or debuffs improvement which every other class has gotten is really bad as self-buffs is one of the areas DK lacks in, at least make Unveiling Daggers attack speed buff last 10s please.

- DK still has a lot of useless or subpar moves that haven't been changed at all, this is especially crippling for awakening where there are multiple. Vedir's Dogma, Mark of Vedir, Sudden Attack, Sparring Slash, Darkness Burst, Dusk: Hallucination, Soul Snatch, to a lesser extent Spirit Blaze and Hallucination Gap.

- Changes to Grip of Grudge from what people has tested on Global Labs (Glabs) is completely underwhelming again. It still doesn't do effective damage in PvE.

- Changes to Cluster of Despair means we loose our long range pull skill in Awakening and our spammable T3 skill for a move that might be more viable in PvP. However, the damage from people who have done some testing on Glabs is underwhelming for the time it keeps you stationary for, probably becaus of the increase to it's PvP modifiers and the lack of PvP crit rate.

- DK in both specs is one of the worst PvE classes, pretty much nothing has been done to improve this, none of the changes implemented actually improves the overall DPS for PvE grinding.

TLDR; Succ got the changes that will keep it competitive but the same cannot be said for Awaken which seemingly got barely improved. Overall changes are lacking compared to other class reworks, our rework seems very small and basic in comparison and we are not a top tier class to justifiably say we didn't need more improvements.

There's so much more I can say to this but I'll save that for later as this would be too long otherwise.

Hello PA,

I played this class over 2 years and did a lot of PvP with 645 GS. I will talk about the main issues with  Dk and this feedback can make the class better for beginner .

Category: Dusk Rework + Smoky haze

Subject: iframe + Gaps

Description: even after a long time you buff dusk of  the speed animation  . this skill has a gap before the animation and end with low fps. I always  get cc or grab . That’s is not a really iframe when I am using a skill on cooldown on 2 or 5 sec and get grab because of a gap or desyn.  I waste a protected iframe skills to get killed as a Glas canon . After the last patch you buffed ninja/Kuno iframe of removing their sa and make it completely in iframe with a cooldown of 1 sec . is it possible to rework this 3 iframes of Dk and make it one with 1 sec cooldown like ninja , Kuno , hasashin , sorc ? Or give succ Dk this possible of prime Dusk with 1 sec cooldown instead of 2x iframe with 2 and 5 sec cooldown with a gap . Don’t forget that Kuno , sorc , ninja , hash are already s rank class in 1 vs 1 and you make them with the rework to S+ . Instead of looking of Dk  and maewha which has one of the worst rework ever and fall  very behind them .

Even smoky haze need a rework it has gap before and end of the animation a old iframe skill with a sa u always get grab too . Pls give it back in Prime the iframe and fix the gaps before and ends .

Category: Striket / Mystic + Shield Classes 

Subject: hard to match with same gear or high evasion striker + mystic 

Description: I would advice to balance this . You should change Dk completely from magic Ap . When is a knight doing magic ? She has a sword and should act like a melee class with meles Ap especially in succession .  Even Corsair the water class with so many magic effect of water and a sword doing melee attack. Don’t forget nova she is melee ap too with her Ice and lightning style her engage mode.  this would change the big disadvantage against striker and mystic with high evasion and passiv magic damage reduction . They deal so much damage after a grab and in what game a tank deals more damage than our Dk with the same ap ? I forget that striker clone has 50 % accuracy 

Against shield classes we need 1-2 skills like from Corsair to debuff their frontal guard .  This  would help a lot to fight against them put the debuff in wheels of fortune or spirit legacy or lunacy   . 1 or 2 skills should be enough . Imagine Corsair has iframe with grab resistent and debuff + grab . We as a Dk are squishy in group fight with succession and don’t have big survive ability with big stamina issues !

For succession it would help to reduce all skills with stamina consumption  about 50% or give Dk a passiv in succession for reducing of stamina skills around 50% .

My stamina is lvl 43 and  it is away after 5 sec !

The idea to buff sage , Corsair with grab resistent would help Dk a lot against  grab classes . Dk need  a buff with grab resistent .There will be Video about Dk gap in iframe .

I hope your hear my voice and this can help the classes .

https://youtu.be/66KvBtJpN3A

https://youtu.be/OiR5PFmWviw

https://youtu.be/Ml5IZwRT-Wc

https://youtu.be/Sk71I2y8UTQ

https://youtu.be/fCoo-k7ugYs

https://youtu.be/Pc0B3sN6s1M

https://youtu.be/Vimapq0ajuk

https://youtu.be/TuCleiRh-cot

Hello PA: This is from the Shrine of Vedir Discord Server:

Systemic Issues Following the patch on Glabs on Nov 4th, PA has acknowledged a number of systemic issues that they think of addressing. However, we believe this list was not exhaustive, and the following also apply: The following are systemic issues that DK is affected by that need to be addressed. All of these issues affect multiple, or even all of them. These issues cannot be solved on an individual basis, but need to be addressed overall to manage a stable balance. 

1. FPS / Desync issues

2. Hitbox issues / Z axis 3.

Slow debuff

4. Perma SA rotation / Grab necessity

6. SA Block

7. PvE inequality

8. Imbalanced Class modifiers

9. Input delays caused by hotkeys & directional key priority over skill activation

------------------------------------------------------

1. Overall Summary of DK reworks Awakening

   1. Modifiers still make battle against certain classes harder

   2. Mainhand damage in PvE is still very low, leading to loss of DPS during awakening skill CDs

   3. Mainhand is still a "Deathtrap" in PvP due to gaps, rooted animations, no cancels etc

   4. Many of the useful skills have fairly high CDs, which gates Awakening DK behind these CDs in both PvP (ranged spells for large scale) and PvE (mainhand skills doing low damage)

   5. Systemic issues, especially matchups against SA Block classes have not been addressed at all. Additionally, hitbox issues on shattering darkness and seed of catastrophe cause some of our main damage skills to not land in PvP and PvE, which leads to a lot of lost damage

   6. Improvements to kiting and ranged pressure are nice but do not address core issues of the class

   7. Many skills in both mainhand and awakening kits are still useless, including most Rabams and BSRs

   8. No self buffs or impactful debuffs

   9. Lack of viable skills in large scale situations (e.g. ranged options)

   ----------------------------------------

   Succession

   1. Modifiers still make battle against certain classes harder

   2. PvE will be improved due to increased AoE size

   3. Kiting ability still limited due to stamina costs (also on non movement skills) and increase of ranged pressure / increased movement from other classes

   4. Many of the useful skills have fairly high CDs, which gates Succession DK behind these CDs in both PvP (lunacy, legacy, nocturne) and PvE (few filler skills)

   5. Systemic issues, especially matchups against SA Block classes have not been addressed at all

   6. Improvements to gaps are very useful for survivability and responsiveness of the class

   7. Lack of clear identity or specialty as role as "assassin" is gated behind bugs / mentioned issues

   8. Many skills in both mainhand and awakening kits are still useless, including most Rabams and BSRs

   9. No self buffs or impactful debuffs

   10. No viable T3 addon

   11. Defense and Melee pressure is still far too low for a purely melee kit

   -------------------------------------------------------------------

   What we still need: Given the current way things are going, it is unlikely that the systemic issues are going to be addressed any time soon, even if they have at least been acknowledged. While I sa in the beginning, that trying to address this on a per basis will not lead to long term balancing of the game, ignoring these issues is not helping it either, but rather aggravating it. Thus, I will be adding ways to resolve the issues in my further suggestions.

    

   1. A way of dealing with Perma SA / Shield classes in Open world pvp, 1v1 and large scale. Currently, we have very low modifiers to these classes, need a long time to pressure their HP or Block gauge, while blowing all our damage and CDs, while these classes can bait for time and just wait it out until we have run out of relevant skills in order to CC and damage us. We have very few options of defending ourselves in direct combat to these classes, as they can often not be CCd with anything but a grab, especially now after the rework has closed a lot of the formerly exploitable gaps (see striker, warrior rework). In times before, when DP and HP was lower all around, having high AP on DK was often enough to still pressure these classes. Nowadays, this is no longer the case, and we have lost our one advantage of dealing with these classes. The reworks have aggravated that issue as well, by adding more movement to these classes. Succession DK already had more issues with dealing with shields / gauntlets as she had lower ability to kite them and relied on pure damage pressure, while often taking much more damage in trades as well as being debuffed, whereas she applied lower damage, without heals, self buffs or debuffs on the enemy. Awakening had the edge by being able to kite and apply ranged damage. With the addition of a lot more movement (see striker, valkyrie) through the reworks, this advantage is almost gone soon too, as these classes can chase us down even more easily now. To bring DK up to being able to compete again, especially in Metas where large scale is mostly comprised of these classes (See EU), multiple things have to happen.

   a. Improvements of modifiers against these classes

   b. Addition of debuffs / DoTs to make these es more less accepting of pure damage trades (SA trades)

   c. Additional grab resist for succession DK

   d. Additional ranged pressure option for succession DK (eg return of float range on slanted)

   e. Ressource cost to holding SA Blocks f. or, if e is not applied: Additional damage to standing blocks (Q blocks), or debuffs to Block gauges (eg strong DR reductions if stacking hits on blocks)

   2. Improvements to hit registry on ranged skills. These include Shattering darkness, Seed of catastrophe, old Cluster, new Cluster, Ashes, Shadow strike, shadow bullet

   3. Additional Self buffs or improvements to the existing ones (accuracy, attack speed, movement speed, AP, resistances, HP regen)

   4. Additional debuffs for targets or improvements to existing ones (DR reduction against blocks, slows, DoTs, magic DR reduction)

   5. Old Cluster being returned and adding new cluster as a new skill / replacing another skill in awa (grip, soul snatch for example); alternatively, add a skill we can use to quickly pull mobs with low cooldown and sufficient range

   6. Improving Prime: Airstrike with SA on first hit or removing collision with projectiles. Since it is an important “getaway” tool, being hit out of the iframe by projectiles or faster moving classes is highly detrimental. An additional option would be adding a Prime version of the new airstrike flow that is protected (eg. SA) which will be useable while in airstrike in order cancel airstrike with the new skill rather than dusk, as this would open up better uses for DK by saving up her dusk CD, and at the same time make the new airstrike flow a lot more useful.

   7. A useable T3 skill addon for succession

   8. Improvements to PvE damage to skills other than (awakening) Spirit Legacy, Shattering darkness, Seed of catastrophe, Dark Nebula, Spirit Blaze. The current skills we have are not sufficient to rotate through them, and always result in downtime when grinding, which means low DPS during these phases, and in turn lower trash outcome. ---Preferably improvements to Mainhand skills instead of awakening skills, as mainhand is an integral part of the and part of the hybr melee/ranged design. Rendering these skills useless in PvE is detrimental to the and its entity, and also the fun of playing with its kit.

   9. Improvements to PvE damage to skills other than (succession) lunacy of vedir, wheel of fortune, kamasylvia slash, enforcement, airstrike. Same as in awakening, long downtimes of the skills lead to low DPS periods, lowering trash output. Also increases to AoE sizes for other skills, as there is no point in hitting the full mob group with 2 skills (lunacy of vedir / wheel of fortune), while still only hitting half of them with Pervasive darkness/ enforcement / ravage rake / airstrike + flow. Alternatively, reduce CDs and increase damage similar to succession lahn skills, where only 2-3 skills are necessary to be used. As this would have an impact on PvP too though, this needs to be examined closely. To further improve QoL during PvE, remove stamina costs from non movement skills like pervasive darkness and unveiled dagger, as this is currently preventing us from farming larger grindspots.

   10. General speedup and linkage improvements of the mainhand kit. Mainhand is currently a death trap due to needing high FPS to even correctly function, being animation locked and stationary and littered with gaps. Fixing these issues only in succession will not be enough also update the awakening kit, but succession needs these improvements just as much, as otherwise the reliance on Dusk cancel, which is available only every 2 seconds is too high. Mainhand needs to work cohesively with awakening, and allow for melee combat, and more mainhand skills need to be useable in succession to make the spec less predictable / cooldown limited.

   11. Revisit passives & Class buffs (Ebuff/Qbuff) over all classes and try to bring them in line. Make sure passives are reasonable. Improve the 5% movement speed passive for succession DK (eg adding additional grab resist, buffing Movement speed by 20% instead, adding 5-10% Attack Speed etc)

   12. Ranged skills are very useful for large scale, but the long downtime between useable skills makes awakening DK feel lackluster. Not having the option to go into melee due to the aforementioned issues of the mainhand kit leaves DKs feeling like they lack a clear role to fill while waiting for CDs to come up again. Increasing viability of melee combat in large scale or increasing ranged / kiting options even further will help with that issue.

   13. Removal or revamp of currently useless skills. Please refer to the following document for an overview of our (at the current point in time) useless skills, as well as more in depth explanations of some of the above issues: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-oOg3AvC0RU0BZvS2c6r2sUO4RABfzU1mfMP3fATk2Y/edit?usp=sharing . Please also refer to the feedback to the changes above, as well as the discord post linked above as to why the current changes to some of these skills are not sufficient. Please note that BSR skills and Rabams are included in this point

    

Additional feedback from conversations with other Dark Knights: 

-Class modifiers being under 100% against every class that we know (excluding Hashashin, Nova, Sage, Corsair) and their modifiers being over 100% against us-- referenced above but in particular our 77% modifier against strikers/mystics in addition to their additional magic damage is extremely problematic. This may be partially addressed by the increased grab cooldowns listed in the Nov 12th global lab notes. 

-The closest comparison for Succession Dark Knight is Sorceress who we can't match in terms of iframes due to stamina management and cool downs, split dusk begins to alleviate these issues but doesn't offer survivability on par with that class. 

-Classes with lower entry via gearscore into pve grind spots get to those same spots faster and then ascend past us into higher level grinds and more money faster by virtue of their 209 ap carrying them into the same areas as a dark knight can grind at 245+

-Our attack speed in general suffers with no meaningful buffs in our kit aside from the very short buff received from the high stamina cost Unveiled Dagger, thus affecting the cast speed of our higher damaging skills which hurts us in both pve and pvp. 

-If Dark Knight's identity has long been known as a glass cannon with an emphasis on the cannon part, then our damage might need to be re-examined because there are many many classes that can eliminate people in as many skills as we are able to. 

-Nocturne could use an SA or I-frame from the beginning so we don't get punished out of it when using it as a defensive tool or as a combo extender with twilight dash or lunacy of vedir (in succession)

-The frontal guard registration of certain skills not keeping up with camera rotation (trap of vedir, shattering darkness, bombardment, and the defense option of nocturne), the FG stays where the skill was cast until the movement ceases. 

Thank you for your time! 

Hello,

The December 3rd changes to the Dark Knight are a mixed bag of buffs and nerfs that I think need to be seriously looked at.  

The image posted that claims the point of the rework was to balance the PvE of all classes to match those that perform very well is now essentially an insult. 

Awakening:

With the reworks to Dark Knight you have removed the cluster of despair repeatable tier-3 skill as a useful pve skill since it was good for pulling and self buffing (a trait that Dark Knights are already severely lacking in)

Succession:

For the rework info from December 3rd you have removed critical damage in PvE from the succession kit on Wheel of Fortune and Twilight dash.  The net gains from the previous buffs have now been taken backwards and moved our average PvE neither forward nor backward. We moved sideways.  Please consider reinstating the PvE critical damage to our skills so that we may have a true and actual buff to our grind as we already underperform compared to the known grinding classes.  Also consider adding the 2 hits back to enforcement while removing the hits ONLY IN PVP so that we can have another high damage skill to bring our PvE grind up to the proper level with the other classes.  

Also please consider adding the critial chance in PvP back to Lunacy of Vedir in PvP. 

Lastly look at the BUFFS for the Guardian, one of the most powerful grinders in the game who received 0 nerfs.  How can you claim to want to equalize pve then buff one of the best while simultaneously leaving Dark Knight in a weird spot.

Thank you! 

No body reads this forum bud shits dead asf in here 

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-The closest parallel for Succession Dark Knight is Sorceress, who we can't match in terms of iframes owing to stamina management and cool downs; split dusk begins to relieve these concerns, but it still lacks the survivability of that class.

-Classes with lower gearscore entry into pve grind places get there faster and then ascend past us into higher level grinds and more money due to their 209 ap carrying them into the same areas as a dark knight can grind at 245+.

-With no major buffs in our kit other from the very short buff from the high stamina cost Unveiled Dagger, our attack speed suffers in general, hurting the cast speed of our higher damaging skills, which disadvantages us in both pve and pvp.

-If Dark Knight's identity has long been regarded as a glass cannon, with an emphasis on the cannon aspect, our damage may need to be reconsidered, as there are many classes that can eliminate people in as many skills as we can.

-Nocturne could start with a SA or I-frame so we don't be punished when we utilize it as a defensive tool or a combo extender with twilight dash or madness of vedir (in succession)

smash karts